Telma VinhaEducator specializing in conflicts and professor at Unicamp
One of the greatest scholars on conflicts in schools in the country, the teacher at Campinas State University (Unicamp) Telma Vinha says that problems of violence or prejudice cannot be resolved with expulsion alone.
The discussion came to a head with the case of racism occurred this month with the daughter of the actress Samara Felippo at Colégio Vera Cruz, in the west of the capital. The mother has criticized the school for merely suspending the girls who stole her daughter’s notebook, ripped out pages, and wrote a racial slur on a page.
According to Telma, although the family’s request is a legitimate demand, the school’s role is to educate, not to punish. And that change will only happen through “becoming aware”. “The educational function of the school must be guided by awareness and reparation. Making mistakes and learning from mistakes is part of it, especially when they are children or teenagers,” she says. “We have to be very careful not to criminalize youth.”
For the pedagogue, the actions need to take place throughout the school, with discussions in classrooms of all grades and a lot of work on racism for the authors. “You can work with everyone on an idea of how we can help each other so that these things no longer happen at our school. That community can learn,” she says.
“This is the collective’s idea, but Brazil is a country that punishes a lot, it doesn’t educate. And she sees conflict mediation as mopping,” says Telma, professor at the Department of Educational Psychology.
See below the main excerpts from the interview.
Unicamp professor Telma Vinha says that there are cases in which parents can be held responsible, but it cannot be the first alternative Photograph: Felipe Rau
Actress Samara Felippo, mother of the girl victim of racism, has called for the expulsion of her colleagues, as have many parents on social media, in parents’ groups on WhatsApp. How should the school act?
Exclusion from a school environment is a legitimate demand because only the family and victim know about their pain. The most important subjects in this story are the victim and her family. And the legal path is a possibility, but the perspective we bring is thinking of school as a pedagogical role. Because, even though it is a crime, we are talking about a school, a place of learning, coexistence, of learning to live in society.
Expulsion from school can signal to everyone that this is not allowed, that this is very serious, but the educational function of the school must be guided by awareness and reparation. I defend the school as transformative. And making mistakes and learning from mistakes is part of it, especially when they are children or teenagers. Teaching colleagues that you can make mistakes and overcome mistakes is also part of education, which has to be humanizing.
We have to be very careful not to criminalize youth. The teenager does not have to be destroyed by a mistake, even if it is violence. In the Child and Adolescent Statute itself, the infraction is seen as a socio-educational measure, so the adolescent is not punished as an adult. The objective of the socio-educational measure is to make the teenager understand the consequences of their actions. If through ECA he is reintegrated into society, we always advocate that he undergoes positive reintegration into the community he is in, which is the school.
But people defend zero intolerance, as if learning took place through vexatious, exaggerated punishment. And in the studies we do on the radicalization of young people, this is a big deal. Humiliation makes them find places where these feelings are channeled.
Today, under what conditions is it possible to expel students from schools?
If the regulations allow it and it is very well founded as a serious infraction, the school could expel the person. But there is always an appeal. What I have seen in schools is doing something in common agreement with parents, demonstrating the difficulty of that student staying. But you have to remember that he goes to another school. It is very serious to criminalize youth. It could be my son, his. The school has to educate based on this.
Is this surprising because it happened in a school that was a pioneer in the private sector in having an anti-racist project?
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No matter how good the school is or has an anti-racism project, these things will happen because we are talking about a change in culture. No school is exempt. And when you start working on inequalities, if you don’t do a good job with conflicts, the tensions of violence that were naturalized no longer exist, in the sense that everyone is more attentive. We also have to consider that we are in a structurally racist society. Even with an anti-racist fight, with racial solidity or literacy, this will happen. That’s why we have to remain strong in this literacy. You have to defend schools in this strengthening; and not attack them.
What should the school do instead of expulsion?
It is necessary for the teenager to become aware of what happened. Study what’s behind it. Part of the repair is awareness and learning from what was done.
And what should the attitude be towards the victim?
The first thing is listening and acceptance, without minimizing the pain. You can’t brush aside or ask what she did to make that happen. Whoever approaches must be a prepared person, with non-violent communication and who is close to the child, someone they trust and who has as much information as possible. When you talk to the victim, you need to know how they feel, what they would like to be done to make them feel good. Sometimes, for example, the person just wants an apology and reassurance that this won’t happen again. It’s not that you’re minimizing, but for her that’s enough. Schools also need to provide quick feedback to the victim’s family, because sometimes the school takes action, but does not inform those involved. Then the feeling that parents have is that nothing is being done.
Furthermore, how does the school have to work with the entire school community?
This issue of communication is fundamental. And communication is not about meeting demands, but about accepting anxieties and saying “we are doing it”. Never minimize or say it’s a joke or a childish thing. It needs to show the actions in the various instances, with the victim, with the perpetrators, with the other students. From the moment the incident happened, the whole school knew that this had to be discussed. Start with the class, then discuss with them how they see the issue, how they feel when it happens in other spaces.
They will often say it was serious, but they will also commit to being alert if it happens again and intervening. You can work with the boys on how we can help each other so that these things no longer happen at our school. That community can learn. And this same process has to be open and talked about in all classes, keeping the appropriate proportions and age differences. But it’s not something that I have to put a tampon in, on the contrary, these pains, these sufferings, these dilemmas are discussed. The school doesn’t realize that when it closes its doors and only releases one grade, this is bad. The grade is not enough to resolve doubts.
There are also those who ask for parents to be held criminally responsible.
I think this is serious because firstly, we don’t defend a school with complaints, we defend a school that cares. We are very good at punishing, but not very good at caring. It’s one thing to ask for help because I’m facing a problem, it’s another thing to report it. The punishment for parents, when you see that the father is negligent, you call the school, you try to work on that and that happens again, that’s fine. I even understand why you call these parents and say: look, if there is no involvement, you are the ones who will answer for it, but never as a first alternative.
In the United States, there was recently a case in which parents were convicted of the massacre their son committed at a school.
There, they had countless neglects and the boy clearly had psychological disorders, was violent and, even so, the parents bought a gun. There are times when, yes, it is the responsibility of the parents. What cannot be done is in the first problem, we protect ourselves, criminalize families, young people, and no longer have an educational function.
There is also the discourse that society is complex, with many challenges, all of which reach school. And she couldn’t handle it all.
The number of functions a school has is much greater than it had 20 years ago. The logic of a school that was designed can no longer cope, the number of specialists, students per class, teacher hours. In fact, there is a much greater role for schools, but at the same time they do not provide other working conditions that allow schools to deal with complex issues, even in private schools. But we also can’t add more things to the school, we have to reevaluate what is needed in society at the moment. Is what is taught really relevant to current times? Do you have to put all of this on your resume? There’s grammar, mitochondria. We know that school increasingly plays a role as a social function, of learning to live together. This has to happen at school because it is the social space par excellence, where you will coexist as different.
But this is a role for the whole of society as well, for the collective.
Yes. Anti-racist education must occur at school, but not only at school. The family has to work with their children that there is no such thing as racist jokes, that this is violence. If there are children playing in my house and they call someone else names like a well stopper, you intervene and say: “why did you call someone that? Are you angry with him and offending him by taking a physical characteristic?” And the school also has to work with families. Work through the conflicts that appear. This community can discuss and not just talk in the sense of “let’s expel”, but in the sense that this could happen to anyone’s child. That community may or may not emerge stronger. This is the collective’s idea, but Brazil is a country that punishes a lot. And he sees conflict mediation as mopping. We punish everything, not educate.
Tags: Racism Samara Felippos daughter Brazil punishes lot doesnt educate expert
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